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Thread: Ultra frizz thread!!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirara View Post
    Well, I think frizzy is a sort of a "hair type". Not like a Fia hair type, but something extra, like some hair will be naturally shiny/naturally dull/slippery/floaty/heavy. It's just natural hair that isn't styled with hair serums/oil/conditioners. It is a shame that it's viewed negatively and we have to hide or minimize that trait. It shouldn't be something to be ashamed of.

    If the hair frizzes just from washing and conditioning, no leave-ins, in every weather, it's pretty much a quality of that particular hair. There was nothing to provoke that frizz. All a person can do is try to mask/prevent some of it. Yes, it is annoying, though some don't even care/notice.

    Co-wash can help with it, but it's still the way the hair is, because another hairtype or person will not frizz using the same method (S/C). I also don't think people should be "forced" to co-wash just because they have curly hair. There's no such thing as caring for the hair wrong when all you do is wash, we have a right to a clean hair/scalp the way we see fit (for some, co-wash isn't enough).

    Hair can be damaged from chemical processes and frizz due to that, but I'm talking about virgin hair with this trait.

    There is nothing natural about shampoo, conditioner, comb/ brush, towel turban, daily showering, up dos, exposure to chlorinated water, nor the diet we eat that nourishes the hair and scalp, nor the fact that caucasian wavies and Afro-Caribbean curlies alike live in wholly unsuitable climates/ dew points they simply didn't evolve to occupy. Very very few of us have any concept at all of what our 'natural' hair looks like - this is not simply nature or a trait, nuture is playing a HUGE role. Horrific tangles and eventually dreadlocks would be the likely outcome of going right back to basics, and that would go for anyone who didn't groom using natural tools like fingers (themselves or one another as other mammals do) even straight hairs. Having seen mega tangles on straight haired kids they look remarkably like ... frizz.

    Serums oils and leave in conditioners are required by wavies and curlies to get 'good hair' partly because we shampoo and comb and all the other unnatural things our hair is exposed to. It's not just chemical processes that cause damage and alter the behaviour of the hair: anionic surfactants change the electrical charge on the hair, products also alter the pH so that the cuticle doesn't sit right, surfactants dissolve the fatty f-layer (in built silicone!), remove sebum instead of letting it distribute and defrizz naturally. Combing especially repeatedly through the day as many westerners do again damages the cuticle and protective lipid layers and it separates waves and curls into individual hairs (= frizz!) that could very well naturally want to clump together, frequent washing and wetting can cause hygral fatigue. The concept of 'virgin' lengths is erroneous, hair that has been commercially shampoo'd repeatedly is not truly virgin, wavies and curlies are more likely to be porous or have kinks which make hair more vulnerable to some aspects of this damage.

    Nobody is 'forcing' anyone to conditioner-only wash no idea where that random idea sprung from! If you are referring to Curly Girl, the book/ method explicitly permits super gentle sulphate free shampoos, and many do so from the fine haired/ weak wavy end to the coarse haired kinky coily end. Having said that cationic surfactant/ fatty alcohol rich conditioner is arguably a more 'natural' way of cleansing the hair than anionic surfactant rich shampoo, because the electrical charge and pH is close to truly virgin hair (new unprocessed roots). Alternatives include soap nuts or soapwort extract which are both mildly acidic, water only, sebum only, modern mild foaming surfactants like the zwitterionics (eg. betaines) or non ionics (eg. glucosides), egg/ honey and suchlike.

    Sulphate shampoo is only around a century old, alkaline soap dates back a few hundred, never intended for personal grooming but as a potent degreaser for fabrics and household items, whereas herbs like soapwort have been used since the stone age. Water only no doubt millenia before that, and of course prototype leave in 'conditioners' (natural plant oils) for protection and styling, so it's nonsensical to have commercial shampoo and rinse out conditioner as the 'normal' or 'default' which proves our hair is somehow 'naturally bad'. One chemist's view on the modern versions
    Porosity and Curly Hair
    The Scoop on Vinegar
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  2. #22
    Bohemian Array Sharysa's Avatar
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    Basically, Firefox, your post is awesome and very informative.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharysa View Post
    Basically, Firefox, your post is awesome and very informative.
    Thank you! I hope it didn't come over as rude. I feel quite passionate about it, having spent years thinking I had naturally 'bad hair' then reading of so may other wavies and curlies thinking they had naturally 'bad hair' too. In fact we are fighting it and attacking it with the sort of products and techniques that are socially acceptable in the west this century! This whole 'bad hair' or 'naturally frizzy' thing is so pervasive small children are having relaxers burn their delicate skin, or extensions/ braids so tight they have the first stages of traction alopecia. So so sad.
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  4. #24
    Member Array Kirara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
    I hope it didn't come over as rude.
    No. I just think some of us aren't so extreme when we think about our hair. We just wash/care and go about our modern days. Frizzy or not isn't bad, it's just a style choice.
    SheliaAnn1969, Eunice and lapushka like this.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirara View Post
    No. I just think some of us aren't so extreme when we think about our hair. We just wash/care and go about our modern days. Frizzy or not isn't bad, it's just a style choice.
    Guys, don't forget, this fad to have really straight, frizz-free hair will pass and people will probably go back to wanting faux curls like those produced in the 80's, as much as people make fun of it nowadays. It's like eyeglasses; if you wear the "right" frames, it's cool. The "right" frames were not cool when I was in school.

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    So whitestripes, what you're saying is, when I no longer care....I'll be *in*? lol
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  7. #27
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    Sweet Baby Jesus, please don't let the crimped hair and mall bangs come back in style!!!!
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirara View Post
    No. I just think some of us aren't so extreme when we think about our hair. We just wash/care and go about our modern days. Frizzy or not isn't bad, it's just a style choice.
    Well now I am super confused, how did you get from frizz being a natural trait to style choice?

    I wish it wasn't as extreme as little kids having relaxers or traction alopecia, and teens getting horribly bullied for their 'naturally' frizzy hair but it is. And actually some of that stems from historic oppression of certain cultures/ ethnic groups, I won't accept personal responsibility for something I wasn't involved in and find abhorrent, but I can feel saddened and passionate about finding a way forwards.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eunice View Post
    Sweet Baby Jesus, please don't let the crimped hair and mall bangs come back in style!!!!
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  10. #30
    Bohemian Array Sharysa's Avatar
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    Sometimes eighties hair actually looks neat, but I am also concerned that mall hair is going to come back somehow. *shudder*

    I also don't want the super-high scrunchies to come back.
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